| PvP Tips / Guide(!) |
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*Note: since the stats will change after the re-balance of the game, I will re-calculate the effects when the re-balance occurs 17/4/2010*
Out of curiosity some days ago I created a "battle simulation" in excel. If my spreadsheet is correct, I came out with interesting findings! I assume it is correct since most of the facts I found I have observed from experience too. However, all of the tips and recommendations I give is not from personal experience. They are based solely on the simulation model I created in an excel spreadsheet. They stand true as long as the simulation in excel is approximately correct. But if it is correct, and I think that it is, the findings provide many insights that would be difficult to obtain solely from experience, if for no other reason, due to gear impalances. Note: This post have changed dramatically since its original form thanks to much input and constructive criticism from Stratege, so I decided to rewrite it from scratch! Indeed I would be glad if he contributes to this post as much as he did in the original!
Also since the original post became too cluttered, I hope that this one will be more inviting for new comments and feedback. The original can be found here: http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9583.page edit: since so many thoughts have been gathered in this post.. I guess it became more of an attempt for a complete "PvP guide" rather than just tips. However, since I have too little experience in PvP to write a guide, take the suggestions below as proposals to be tested rather than hard evidence(!) *Simulation Assumptions* First let’s begin with the assumptions and the shortcomings of the simulation: A) Weaknesses 1) I didn’t take into account the fact that skills are silenced when morale drops to zero. I have taken into account the effect of spells in a continuous fashion, whereas most of them are "front loaded," so since the two effects kind of counteract each other it shouldn't make much of a difference. However, this might have an effect on final results when the skills of one race are much less “front loaded” than the skills of another race. 2) I haven’t taken into account the fact that dmg skills hurt all the units of the opponent squad proprtionately. This might give an advantage in the simulation for high unit squads. However I also haven’t taken into account that some portion of dmg remains unused when a unit of a squad is killed, so this gives an advantage in the simulation for low unit squads. Hopefully these two effects counteract each other. B) Assumptions 1) I have taken into account all stats and spells of Tier3 elite units. No trait skills. No precautions. The gear I've used is the one I recommend. All ultimate level. No charms. The only "special equipment” I used are the ones I will mention. Ofcourse I used the same gear for all races. 2) I replaced teleport skills with “stun/anti-stun/speed” abilities. 3) It is close to impossible to calculate the exact effect of heros in the battleefield *Gear and equipment* The best traits to focus on in order of importance are: health damage max morale armor morale regen This means that the best gear/equipment are Hammer/Longbow, due to dmg bandage (Warlords & Villain's), due to hp talisman/arrows (Warlords & Villain's), due to dmg And remember villains stuff and warlord stuff of the same kind do stack! I also used the following items in tests (which I found to be superior): Arm Priest Branding Iron and Dark Path Shroud of Mist for fast units Cragg and Velyas's romance and Armor of kings for ranged units. In the second and third slot of ranged I used arrows for ranged units. Ranged - Cragg & Velya’s, villain arrows, warlord arrows, longbow, armor of kings fast - villain bandage, warlord bandage, talisman/horn, priest iron, dark path slow - villain bandage, warlord bandage, talisman/horn, platemail, ringmail I couldn't accurately observe the effects on boots and scope, but I do use them if i don't have any better than a horn to use. Indeed, I would prefer boots against talisman for fast units. And I would prefer a scope if I didn’t have Craig and Velya’s Since armor does not make much of difference I use ringmail. Also the charms to focus on are those of Stamina, then Power/Accuracy, then Spirit. I guess for ranged units you could shift the focus on Accuracy instead of Stamina. Importand equino gear: Sword of Deadly poison for slow units Note: almost all equino gear are at least as poweful as heavily charmed normal gear *Units “ladder” between races* I present races from best to worst in each category. I assume units fight with same kind of units of another race. Next to them I will present with how many % of its initial hp each troop is left at the end of the battle. So that you can judge how much the one race is better than the other. IOW you can think of this percentage as the percentage of TP you win to engage in each favorable battle (multiplied by 86 of course). If you "gain" too much TP ahead of the enemy early on it would be difficult for him to win later Best Slow units: Covenant, Nihilim, Thul Best fast units: Thul, Covenants, then Nihilim Best ranged units: Thul, Covenant, Nihilim. Slow units only Covenant: 14% against Nihilim / 34% against Thul Nihilim: 23% against Thul Thul Fast units only Thul: 11% against Covenant / 14% against Nihilim Covenant: 13% against Nihilim Nihilim Ranged units only Thul: 11% against Covenant / 22% against Nihilim Covenant: 13% against Nihilim Nihilim Note: In this ranged fight Thul ranged have the best dps, followed by Nihilim (really close), followed by Covenant. However, Covenants have the highest hp and armor that’s why they prevail over Nihilim. It doesn’t happen the same with Thul due to the 1 unit per squad. Interesting facts: Thuls have the best fast and ranged units (assuming the fight with other fast/ranged) Thul's fast units are better than its slow units (in battles against each oher!). So from now on I assume Thuls do not use their slow units at all. If we don't take into account ranged vs melee, healers and heros, Covenant overpower Nihilim in every single account!! Using non-elites instead of elite units (for the same effect), costs in battle about 20-25% more TP. So, it is not efficient at all for any race to build non-elite units, except for very special cases. *Categories of “clever” PvP interacial fights with different type of squads* Ranged vs slow (how much time it takes to kite them to death) Covenant: 31sec against Nihilim, 22sec against Thul Nihilim: 37sec against Covenant / 23sec against Thul Thul: 38sec against Covenant / 33sec against Nihilim x500% for each to account for the actual kiting Note: If they don’t loose any morale through kiting, Nihilim have the highest ranged dps in the game, due to their high base dmg (however the difference with Thul is negligible) Slow vs fast units Covenants: 25% against Thul / 35% against Nihilim Nihilim: 13% against Thul / 22% against Covenant Thul 0% against Covenant / 3% against Nihilim Fast vs ranged units (I assume the ranged are "protected" by a fast units spells too) Thul: 83% against Covenant / 86% against Nihilim Covenant: 62% against Thul / 84% against Nihilim Nihilim: 68% against Thul / 81% against Covenant Fast vs ranged units: chasing/retreating time Nihilim are best all around, followed by Thul. They reach faster, they kite longer. Covenants are the worst on both counts, much worse! Why the above results? Fast units of Thul and Nihillim have very good stun and teleport spells and have speed boosts for themselves. Also their ranged units have good protective spells against melee too. However even though Nihilim kite more and outkite more, still Covenants again more efficient in killing ranged units with their fast units, since reaching faster does not translate into killing faster. "Fast" DL kiting slower fast units 20-25 secs x400-800% to account for the actual kiting Note: these happens when DL has speed traits and fast units do not have long-lasting slow spells (eg. Elite Nihilim and Thul, and non-elite Covenants) Also 25sec is the average time it takes for ranged units to kill “distracted” fast units *Inter-racial Tactics based on these simulations* Thuls use mostly fast units. For covenants to beat them they should use slow units. The only way to beat Covenants is for Thuls to use ranged units too. So Covenants should use fast units against Thul too. Thuls should not change their tactic against Nihilim. Nihilim against Thul should play the same way as Covenants against Thul Nihilim against Covenants shoul play the same way as Thul against Covenants. Covenants should not change their tactic. General ratios to use (edited): Thuls: 1:3 ranged to fast Covenants: 2:2 fast/slow Nihilim: 2:2 fast/slow against Thul, 1:3 ranged to fast against Covenant For battles including DLs these ratios become: Thuls: 1:4 ranged to fast Covenants: 3:2 fast/slow Nihilim: 3:2 fast/slow against Thul, 1:4 ranged to fast against Covenant Note: for battles including DLs it is wise to replace 1 elite fast with 2 regular fast
Note: Covenants have the lowest ranged dps, and the worse kiting/chasing spells. That’s why it’s best not to use ranged in PvP. For the other races it is almost impossible to beat Covenants without using any ranged units. And difficult to kite effectively (and/or prevent enemy kiting) without fast units. *PvP Balance between races* What strikes me most in the above -huge- post is that, contrary to many other views, I see that, assuming my calculations are correct, the game is very balanced at PvP (race-wise at least). edit: with the exception of covenant fast units... I found a "magic" formula for Covenants that works like a charm (ok, I exaggerate!). However imo Covenants have the worst heros. And worst support units PvP-wise. Covenants easiest opponent is (or should be!!) Thul. Thul is very good in PvP, and the formula I suggested is only a bit more difficult to implement than that of Covenants' one, only a tiny bit of kiting. However they have better heros to counteract this fact. And much better support units. Thuls easiest opponent is Nihilim. Nihilim are a bit worse in PvP, since they need to kite 2 units for every 1 unit Thul have to kite. However, they have the highest ranged dmg output for their ranged units when kiting, and have the best heros and kiting spells. Also they have good support units. Nihilims easiest opponent is Covenants. *Clever PvP tactics using non-elite units* 1) DL kills fast units while they are chasing and attacking ranged units. IOW Defend your ranged units with your DL Counter tactic: build non-elite fast units to distract the enemy DL by making him kite them or going melee to attack them and prevent him from attacking attacking the ranged units. Use your elite slow units vs the enemy DL during this time too. He can’t kite your slow units without stop attacking your fast units! Never let two ranged units attack a fast units at the same time, it is better to sacrifice a slow unit by making one of the enemy’s ranged kite it. 2) DL kites with speed boost kites fast –Nihilim and Thul- units IOW Kite Nihilim and Thul elite fast units with your DL using speed boosting traits. Counter tactic: use non-elite fast units with better slow spells (mixed with elite ones) to chase him. 3) Enemy spams ranged units (elite and non-elite) – usually Nihilim IOW Spam elite and non-elite ranged units if the enemy has too few fast units Counter-tactic: Spam non-elite fast units –usually Covenants *PvP before researching Elite units (only with Tier 3 regular unts)* How much “better” units get from regular to elites? a) Covenants Slow units: 25% better Fast units: 25% better Ranged: 40% better b) Nihilim Slow units: 20% better Fast units: 20% better Ranged: 20% better c) Thul Slow units: 5% better Fast units: 30% better Ranged: 40% better Power dynamics early in the game Slow units: Covenants, Thul, Nihilm Fast units: Covenants, Thul, Nihilim Ranged: Nihilim, Thul, Covenant Observations: Since Covenant have worse, not better, ranged units early in the game, and later in the game it is not suggested to PvP using ranged units, thet should not change their PvP main strategy early in the game either. Thuls fast units superiority comes later into the game (although the difference with the regular Covenant ones is small). Also their ranged units improve less than Nihilim’s do later in the game. That means that earlier in the game their ranged units are comparatively weaker than Nihilim’s. All that adds to the fact that against Nihilim they should follow a strategy against Nihilim that is the same as the Covenants one. However against Covenants they should stick to their fast+ranged strategy. Nihilim improve relatively less than other races in transitioning to elites. This means that early in the game are comparatively better in PvP than later. However since they have –comparatively- even better ranged units than Thul, and Thul has worse fast units than they will, it is best to always use a fast+ranged strategy against any race. Ratios to use early in the game(edited) Nihilim: 1:3 ranged to fast Covenants: 2:2 fast/slow Thuls: 2:2 fast/slow against Nihilim, 1:3 ranged to fast against Covenant For battles including DLs these ratios become: Nihilim: 1:4 ranged to fast Covenants: 3:2 fast/slow Thuls: 3:2 fast/slow against Nihilim, 1:4 ranged to fast against Covenant *What abilities to try to disable* Sorrows/Prefect (Aggravating Lash/Spell of Quake) Rawpaws/Blackhide (Hamstring/Ground Slam) Knights/Cataphracts (Charge/Hymn of Leroc) +Heroic Ambush *What gear to try to disable* Creg&Velya’s Sword of Deadly poison Bandages other hp gear/equipment: charmed or equino *Suggested Unit Trait abilities for PvP * Only for Covenant & Nihilim, Thuls natural abilities are too good to be replaced Note: definitely use talisman instead of boots if using these abilites a) Burning Ground - -0.45 speed debuff aura (10 meters passive) Instead of Shield Bash (slow Covenants) Instead of Fear Blade (slow Nihilim) Instead of Pulse Blade (slow Nihilim) b) Heroic Ambush - 45 damage -1.35 speed, Duration 10 Cooldown 30 Instead of Curse of Meni (fast Covenants) *Suggested DL Trait abilites for PvP* a) Dissolve b) Bolts of Fear - Passive, +20% Ranged Armour Penetration (PvE) c) Gnosis Haste - Passive, +10% Speed (PvE) d) Astral Avoidance - Passive, 10% Dodge (PvP) e) Mental Sight - Active, +25% range, Duration 16 sec, cooldown 30 sec (PvP) f) Shadows of Distraction - Active, Teleport 40 Meters, 60 sec, cooldown (PvP) This message was edited 13 times. Last update was at 21 Apr 2010 02:44:00 (CEST) |
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Proud Chancellor of WARGASM for the Beta Eras (retired due to lack of time!) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9916.page (WR6) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9901.page (DL Commentary: How to please all!) |
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**Macro-management in battle**
*General PvP gameplan/strategy* Have about 30 units at inventory at the beginning of the battle. Check regularly your base/TL to produce units on time. Produce fast units first (is the safest bet). Don’t forget to activate skills on your troops Ensure that everything hits, moves or stays in the right direction! Get TLs and VLs. Always keep an eye on enemy DL/heros and all TLs/VLs! It’s always better to go for a VL win if you can Don’t attack enemy’s base and “enemy’s” TLs unless absolutely necessary. Then monitor the enemy’s production carefully to outwit him (he does the same!) a) Build 1-3 small groups (2-3 units each). This forces are used for TL/bases. Have mostly fast units units in those (even regular fast units). Also have 1 slow units too as a third unit for Covenants (or Nihilim against Thul). It is too difficult to use ranged units effectively in these groups, and you need them to be fast. Have one at each strategic location, unless you find an opporunity to attack something or defend. If the end of the game is near, send them in to combine with your large forces. i) Exploit weaknesses in the enemy’s TLs/base. Attack often with these smaller groups as soon as you gain a temporary strategic advantage, be aggressive. Even if you have a 50% chance of coming out victorious from an “engagement” do it.. if only for “population control” reasons. Keep on the offensive. Attacking in multiple locations simulataneously is best, if possible. Don’t let the enemy combine forces to defend himself by focusing on one location, if possible. ii) Defend youself from smaller attacks of the enemy in your TLs/base When you are going to defend with these forces, try to combine them at the defence location. It is best to attack first to prevent enemy attacks. b) Build 1-2 large forces (5-10 units + DL, heros and support). This forces are used for VLs Keep a ratio of 2:3 slow to fast units if you play a tanking strategy or a 4:1 fast to ranged for a ranged one. Produce 1 elite hero if your DL has been killed or if enemy has produced his. Produce 1 regular hero for every 5 units you’ve produced or if enemy has produced his. Produce 1 support unit if you still have 5 units but your regular hero is killed If the end of the battle is near, produce both heros anyway! i) If you have more VLs keep this force on the defensive. Keep it within attacking distance from the enemy at the VL. Time is on your side! Sooner or later your enemy will attack something. Sometimes too late!! ii) If the enemy has more VLs, use this army to capture a VL. It is best to capture VL first though. *Positioning* a) Small maps Get VL(s) first then half TL(s). As soon as you captured your “fair share” of TL and VL, send all your units at the VL (large forces) As time passes send one unit to defend/attack TLs for every three you send at VL. It is important to capture the VL first. Fortify your TL/base only if attacked b) big maps Get half TL(s) first then VL(s). As soon as you captured your “fair share” of TL and VL, send all your units at the VL (large forces) As time passes send one unit to defend/attack TLs for every two you send at VL. The battle will be longer than in small maps and TLs gain in importance Half-way into the battle fortify your TLs and base. It is important to defend them Note: Since many units will be produced, if you find that your inventory is srinking (at 20-25 units) but you don’t have enough VP (300-350) make a full assault to his units, then his base and TL. Otherwise the enemy will simply outnumber you. *Games theory: unit production tactics (not race-specific)* i. Build your fast units first (until you have 2-4 fast units in squad) a) Produce at least 1 fast for every 1 enemy ranged (if you intent to play a “tanking” strategy) Note: if you don’t have time to produce elites, produce regular ones. This will force him to produce more fast units to protect his ranged He might build only 1 fast to protect his ranged by the time you attack… This kind of tactic may lead to “spam” wars. It will usually be initiated by the “ranged player” if he thinks you have too few fast units, or by the “tanking player” if he thinks you have too many ranged Be sure to disperse your ranged units if you are the ranged attacker, and to simultaneously attack multiple ranged targets if you are the “fast melee” attacker. b) Produce at least 1 fast for every 2-3 enemy fast (if you intent to play a “tanking” strategy) Note: if you don’t have time to produce elites, produce regular ones. This will force him to use ranged units. If he doesn’t produce ranged soon (after 2-3 fast), then overpower him by sending a mellee mix heavier in slower units than his (the weakness of the fast mellee strategy) He might build only 1 ranged to kite your slow units by the time you attack… This forms the basis of a “tanking (with few fast units)” or a “ranged (with many fast units)” tactic ii. Build your ranged and/or slow unit last (after you have buils 2-4 fast units in squad) a) Produce 1 slow for every 1-2 enemy fast units (if you intent to play a “tanking” strategy) This will force him to use ranged units Eg. send 2 slow & 2-3 fast He might build only 1 ranged to kite your slow units by the time you attack… b) Produce 1 ranged unit for every 2-3 slow units of the enemy (if you intent to play a “ranged” strategy) Many times the mass production of slow units (after 3 slow) means the enemy will play melee strategy. Produce 1 ranged and send a balanced mix of ranged and fast units. Eg. send 3-4 fast & 1 ranged He might build only 1 fast by the time you attack.. *Ctrl Vs Manual point&click control* Ctrl #: 7,8,9: base & TLs 5,6: small squads from TLs 4: ranged units 3: elite hero 2: regular hero and/or support unit (if near) 1: DL Manual control: slow & fast units of main squad(s) How: instruct all slow and fast to attack enemy's main threat (ranged units, heros or DL) instruct some slow and fast to attack enemy DL or protect your DL micromanage kiting and spells using Ctrl *Common macro-management scenarios* Common scenario No1 - same ammount of TLs with enemy - almost no units guarding the TLs (have already killed each other) - one large force for you / one large force for your opponent Note: if the enemy units are stronger, usually he gains an advantage in the small assaults to TLs, so in order to guard your TLs effectively, since you can no longer assault, you dispatch units from your main squad to smaller squads to defend TLs The end result is that your main squad is weaker than the opponent's Typical moves No1 a) Attack VL (if your force is at least equal with opponent's force) b) Attack enemy TLs (if you can't take VL) until you gain advantage to take VL How to respond to enemy attacking your TLs if you already have VL: by the time the enemy attacks the TL, you must have already one slow unit spawned in the TL and waiting to spawn (or have spawned already) more slow units So, you leave all slow units in the VL from your main squad, and send the rest of the squad to defend the TL. You start sending your main squad after the opponent's main squad when the opponent's squad is half the distance between the VL and your TL. If he then goes after your main squad instead of the TL, retreat to the VL. Common scenario No2 same as Common scenario No1, except there are 2 main squad(s) and 2 VLs - Use the DL and your regular hero in first squad - Use the elite hero and a support unt in second squad Typical moves No2 1) If the opponent splits his main squad too, you play as the first scenario 2) If the opponent has only one super-squad.. a) Defend with the one squad against the super-squad of the opponent at your TL b) Capture 1 VL with the other squad AND then attack opponents TL Note: your defence will last longer than your attack. Then attack enemy's base! **Micro-management** *Unit formation* DL in front Slow units then Fast units in the middle Heros and archers next Support in the back Note: as the battle begins, the DL remains almost stationary, in a distance just close enough to keep at least one enemy ranged unit (or the enemy DL) within range, so as most melee units proceed forward, he naturally positions himself behind them *Common Micro-management scenarios* a) Using your DL (heavily edited) Fast -average- facts It takes 8-12sec for a DL to kill fast units (ranged) It takes 16-20sec for a DL to kill fast units (melee) You need 4 fast units to kill a DL You need 2 fast units + 1 ranged to kill a DL It takes 25-30 sec for two DLs to kill each other The attacking order for a DL is: ranged units fast units (if you have ranged units) enemy DL (if you have slow units) fast units (if you dont have ranged units, neither slow) enemy DL slow units Attack the enemy DL first only if no other enemy unit is in range and all of his units are“hiding” behind him and out of range. Otherwise attack with your DL whatever unit is closest to you. When his units approach your DL in attacking range, or his archers start attacking you, proceed with “tanking strategy” or “ranged strategy.” Analysis: i) Tanking strategy for your DL When you play a tanking strategy, the enemy DL poses a higher threat than his fast units, so attack his DL before you attack his fast units (if you already killed his ranged units). Still leave one fast unit attacking his DL in order to reduce his dmg output. More often than not, fast units will attack your DL converting him into melee, in order to reduce his dmg output. Don't kite his fast units if the enemy has his DL around. If you play a tanking strategy, in order for you to win, your fast units must kill the enemy's ranged before his DL comes out of siege. If you manage to kill his ranged units and you have slow units in your mix focus all your units on the enemy DL. If you don't have slow units (in which case you did something wrong!) focus all your attention on his fast units, but keep one fast unit attacking his DL to reduce his dmg output. If the enemy doesn't have any fast units, focus on his DL. Finally if you have slow units but no fast, attack his DL with your DL and retreat your slow units behind your DL. Attack his fast units with your slow units only if the enemy's fast units attack your DL. ii) Ranged strategy for your DL When you play a ranged strategy, enemy fast units pose a higher threat than his DL, so attack them before you attack the enemy DL. More often than not, enemy's fast units will attack your DL converting him into melee, in order for the rest of his fast units to attack your ranged. Don't kite his fast units if the enemy has his DL around. If you play a ranged strategy, your ranged units must survive until your DL comes out of siege. Then continue to attack his fast units until only his slow units are left standing. Then shift your focus on the enemy DL. In a any case attack enemy slow units last (after the enemy DL is dead) by kiting them with your DL. Note: if your ranged units are killed before you come out of siege, you are now effectively playing a "tanking strategy" so read the previous part! b) If you have DL but the enemy doesn’t Don't kite his fast units if you have ranged units too in the area. Kite him only if you don't have ranged units. In any case, kite his slow units. c) If the enemy has DL but you don’t Retreat unless you really need to protect a base/TL/VL or his DL is severely injured and you have fast units! Or unless you both have huge armies! In any other case retreat and wait for your DL to respawn. However, if you’ve done everything right, his DL will be severely injured and you will have fast units (maybe archers too). So in this case, finish him off with your fast (and ranged) units and proceed! c) “Tanking strategy” for your units Initiate the “units battle” if there was an initial “DLs only” approach. Tanking strategy is more aggressive than ranged strategy. Start by sending all your slow units (if any) to attack the enemy DL. If you have more fast units than the enemy has ranged (you should!) send 2 fast units to his DL too. However if you have 2 slow units, sending 4 units at the same time (2 fast+2 slow) is too much. It is better to keep 1 of your 2 slow units close to your DL to protect him against any enemy melee units that will attack him. Then attack his ranged units with your fast units (one fast unit to each ranged unit). If the enemy DL is fast and kites your fast units, use some regular fast units too –in combination to your elite one– to chase him (if you have any). Even if you can’t reach him, chase him anyway until all his ranged units are killed! Attack enemy DL with all your units when his ranged units are dead. Ignore all other units until you kill his DL. Then focus on his fast units, kiting with your DL if possible. Attack slow units last, kiting with your DL if possible. If you have left only with slow units and DL and enemy has ranged units, retreat. If you have left only with slow units and DL and enemy has only fast units, attack his fast units with your DL, and hide your slow units behind your DL. Attack his fast units with your slow units only if the enemy's fast units attack your DL d) “Ranged strategy” for your units If you have ranged units (“ranged” strategy), attack the units closest to you and kite them. Keep a “DLs only” approach at first unless provoked by units trying to attack your DL. Until then keep your ranged units at attacking distance from your DL. Whatever comes into this range attack it (focusing on the fast units at first). Retreat the archers if attacked by the enemy DL, unless you take care of this threat. Use your fast units to attack whatever ranged unit attacks your ranged units (2 fast units for the enemy DL). If this threat has been taken care of, attack with the rest of your fast units whatever the ranged are trying to kite. If your ranged are dead. Attack the enemy DL with everything you've got. Ignore all other units until you kill his DL. Then focus on his fast units, kiting with your DL if possible. Attack slow units last, kiting with your DL if possible. d) When to spam? Never initiate the spamming unless provoked by the opponents decisions. i) Spamming slow units When the opponent over-uses (spams) fast units eg. he has more than 6 elite fast units for each ranged Spam 1 regular slow unit for every 3 elites. ii) Spamming ranged units When the opponent over-uses (spams) slow units eg. he has more than 2 elite slow units for each fast Spam 1 regular ranged unit for every 2 elites. iii) Spamming fast units When the opponent over-uses (spams) ranged units eg he has more than 1 ranged unit for each fast Spam 1 regular fast unit for every 2 elites e) Final questions a) "I'm Covenant. I play a tanking strategy with elites. Does this mean I should never use Longbows in PvP??" Well, this was the question I posed to Shai Tan, an experienced Covenant player. His answer made me think. And the conclusion is that there is one and only one instance when you can use Longbows: you have your DL, possibly some heros too. You have your army in the usual recomended ratios (2 slow, 3 fast). Well, this is the only instance you might need 1 (for a 5 unit army) or 2 (for a 10 unit army) Longbows. However these ranged units have one and only purpose: to help your DL and/or heros survive. This means you position them as far as possible in order to attack whatever attacks your DL or hero. Usually they will be killed, but they will have served their purpose before they die
The same applies for Nihilim against Thul, the only difference is that since Consul has those amazing stuns, you can use more than 1-2 ranged, but still don't overdo it! 2-4 are enough. The difference with a "ranged strategy" is that in this case you don't try your ranged units to remain alive, because they won't. You just try to put pressure on the enemy and remove his focus temporarily from your DL/heros. b) "I'm Thul. I play a ranged strategy with elites. Does this mean I should never use Goretusks in PvP??" If you are Thul, yes. However if you are Nihilim against Covenant, this changes. There is one and only one instance when you should use Mindblades: when Covenants spam Cataphracts and Knights. You can't overcome that using Nihilim fast units, they are too weak, You can't overcome it using ranged. The only way to overcome that is by using your slow units. However, if you haven't spammed proselytes and MoPs, a good Covenant rarely would spam fast units without reason... This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 21 Apr 2010 01:58:09 (CEST) |
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Proud Chancellor of WARGASM for the Beta Eras (retired due to lack of time!) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9916.page (WR6) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9901.page (DL Commentary: How to please all!) |
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*How to effectively use your Heros and Support units (detailed)*
So, you have produced the right ratios of units, you’ve captured your fair share of TLs/VLs, you’ve launched small attacks all over the place, defended yourself from minor assaults from the enemy and slowly accumulated a big enough force for a serious DL battle. The enemy has done so too. The big battle is emminent. You know that if you position your units correctly and if you attack the enemy units with the right order using stuns and teleports when appropriate the battle will flow smoothly. Nontheless, it is still true than if both you and your opponent play your cards right, although one of you will win, the victory will seem more of a “draw” than a real victory. However, aside from opportunities for effective spamming, what can really make you or break you, is how you will use your special units: heros and support. I’m not a pro, but after studying the most possible scenarios and discussing with some of the best, I came out with the following conclusions, which are basically common sense, but for many new players can be a good starting point. When do I spawn/use the regular hero? How do I use him? After you have at least 5-10 units. You want him to stay alive until you bring your elite hero and the support unit in. He will be a target after your DL dies. As long as your elite hero comes in before the DL is dead, he won’t become a target before your elite hero is dead too. Finally, he won’t become a target easily if you have ranged units before him. Position him as far in the back as possible, as long as he is in range for his spells to work. Behind the ranged units and the DL. If he needs to come forward to cast the spell, retreat him immediately afterwards. He suppports your assault troops and is protected by the troops protecting your DL/ranged units, and from the ranged units themselves (if you don’t have an elite hero to protect). Cast your hostile spells in the beginning of the battle and your friendly spells halfway into the battle (after 10-15sec). Retreat him then until his spells reload and/or the duration of his aura buffs is over. When do I spawn/use the elite hero? How do I use him? After you have at least 10 units and your DL in the field and when you are ready for the “big fight” (or the big fight is initiated by your opponent). You want your elite hero still alive when/if your DL dies in the middle of the battle. If you spawn earlier he will be killed before your DL. He is a primary target but he won’t be reached easily if you have ranged units before him. Position him as far in the back as possible, as long as he is in range for his spells to work. Behind the ranged units and the DL. If he needs to come forward to cast the spell, retreat him immediately afterwards. He suppports your assault troops and is protected by the troops protecting your DL/ranged units, and from the ranged units themselves. Since he will come into the battle after it begins, cast all his spells immediately.Retreat him then until his spells reload and/or the duration of his aura buffs is over. When do I spawn/use the support unit? How do I use it? Immediately after you spawn your elite hero. As long as your elite (and the regular hero) is alive he won’t become a target. Positition him among your elite hero, your DL and your regular hero. His primary task is to help your elite hero (or DL if elite hero is dead) survive by helping him to protect himself. However you want his area/aura buffs/debuffs to reach all these 3 units at the same time. Cast his unit spells only when needed and keep him close. What if the enemy has heros? Treat the enemy elite hero as a second DL. Meaning he is a primary target along with the enemy ranged units. However, only attack his regular hero and his support units after you’ve killed his ranged units. Special units summary (copy-paste from the wiki for your convinience) Note: I counted the first 60sec total effects for the spells Also for percentages buffs I counted them as they would be applied for one hit only I ignored the useless stuff! I used the mark “*” to indicate hostile spells(!) i. Thul Regular Hero: Chieftain + infinite morale (friendly area) apply when needed + 60% dmg red for 10sec (friendly squad) apply when needed to ranged + 1000% life steal (friendly aura) autocast Elite Hero: Patriarch 4000 dmg (hostile squad) best applied to ranged/fast units* 4000 dmg (hostile squad) best applied to ranged/fast units* +600% dmg, (friendly aura) autocast Support: Triblord +1000% life steal but silenced for 10sec (friendly squad) apply when needed +350 health (friendly aura) autocast -1000 morale (hostile aura) autocast ii. Nihilim Regular Hero: Atrocitus Disables abilities for 30sec (hostile squad) best applied to ranged/fast units* -5000 Morale for 20sec (hostile squad) best applied to ranged/fast units* Resurrects all dead units (friendly squad) apply when needed to ranged Elite Hero: Consul 10sec totally stunned (hostile area, huge range) best applied to fast units* -60% Movement speed (hostile squad, huge range) best applied to fast units* -kills one Emberfang! best applied to Emberfangs* Support: Wraith +300 health (friendly squad) apply when needed +9000morale (friendly squad) autocast -3000morale (hostile aura) autocast iii. Covenant Regular Hero: Prelate Avicia +1250 Armor (+22% dmg red) for 20 sec (friendly squad) apply when needed +4000 Morale (friendly area) apply when needed +2000 health (friendly area) apply when needed Elite Hero: Vicar Ezekius 4000dmg (hostile area) best applied to ranged units* 1200dmg (hostile aura) autocast -1800 morale (hostile aura) autocast Support: Paladin +1000 health once (friendly aura) apply when needed +50% dmg (friendly squad) autocast ..And with this post my effort in PvP theory exploration has ended, now time for action! Thank you for watching
edit: since the above posts cover every little detail of PvP with different races I decided not to post additional race-specific info since it would be redundant... This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 26 Feb 2010 00:00:33 (CET) |
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Proud Chancellor of WARGASM for the Beta Eras (retired due to lack of time!) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9916.page (WR6) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9901.page (DL Commentary: How to please all!) |
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Shadowscythe
Dreamchanter Joined: 13 Jun 2008 16:45:19 (CEST) Messages: 1284 Location: America, England and Germany Online |
We, the normal players cannot delete a thread or post we have made, we can however edit messages, just edit out the info, press the big edit button on the side of the message and backspace everything, and...BOOM nothing there, but we cannot delete a thread as I said, only dev's, forum admins (devs and mods) and mods can delete them.
@As an example, can a mod put this writing in blue, indicated by the "@" sign@
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 24 Feb 2010 19:03:03 (CET) |
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*Yawn* Proud Chancellor of TCW Addicted to TCW...Craving for Medals...Desperate for PvP Fallen Cynos Of Manipulation. |
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lol ok.. thank you!
I don't want to delete the whole thread.. just my last (4th) post!! The first 3 are ok.. I hope!
I tried to edit the first post and, and by mistake I pressed "quote" instead of "edit", that's why the 4th post appeared. Ofcourse I erased the quote by editing it afterwards.. thanks again for the info edit: and thanks to the invisible forces that unclutter my thread : P PS. And a tip read my post easier: hit quote, hit preview, and you get and a wider reading space! This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 24 Feb 2010 22:59:12 (CET) |
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Proud Chancellor of WARGASM for the Beta Eras (retired due to lack of time!) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9916.page (WR6) http://www.dreamlords.com/forum/posts/list/9901.page (DL Commentary: How to please all!) |
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